Transcript of Interview with Jesus on Biblical Mysteries, Dec. 20, 2011
For those who prefer a transcript, Ellen has transcribed the Dec. 20 Hour with an Angel interview with Jesus. Many thanks, Ellen.
An Hour with an Angel, December 19, 2011
Graham Dewyea: Well, hello, and welcome to An Hour with an Angel. And I’m delighted to have joining us some very special guests tonight. Jesus will be joining us, as well as Linda Dillon. Dillon is the channel for the Council of Love and will be channeling him.
Also joining us is Steve Beckow, editor of the 2012 Scenario, and who will be asking questions tonight for Jesus to answer. This show is a listen-only format, so for those of you are calling in, feel free to remain on the line if you’d like to listen. You can also join us live for free by clicking on tonight’s show, An Hour with an Angel, on the blogtalk radio website.
So, without further delay I’ll pass it on to you, Steve.
Steve Beckow: Thank you, Graham. Lord, thank you for being with us today. I’m very honored to be speaking with you. I’m sure that every one of our listeners has probably been deeply touched by your teachings and example. I’d like to offer you the opportunity to greet and address our listeners before asking you the questions I have. This is the last Christmas before Ascension, so would you be so kind as to give us a message at Christmas-time 2011?
Jesus: I would be pleased to, and I welcome you all. Yes, I am Jesus Sananda. I am Jesus, I am Yeshua. And it is time that you are ready to ascend, to enter into a new realm that is so distant and so far from what you have experienced historically in this third dimension, not because there was ever anything that was of such deep illusion planned from our side, shall I say, for this reality, but the illusions grew over thousands and thousands of years. They are reflecting in your belief system, in the conscious and unconscious and subconscious fears that so often will rear their heads. But if I had one message to speak about this time, it would be about freedom. It would be about peace on Earth, and yes, it would still be about love.
I am glad, and honored, that so many do take time at this juncture of year, at the solstice, to honor my birth. It is not the exact birth date, but that does not matter. What matters is that you come together to remember my messages of love.
My friends, being human, being part of this exciting, glorious and frustrating collective is a gift. It is a gift beyond measure that you participated in, in the formulation, in the choice of who, where, when, how – in many ways, the same as I did. And in many ways, you walk the Earth just as I did. Yes, society has changed, but have you noticed that politics don’t? And I bring this up because we are talking about Ascension. We are talking about that transition into a new reality where the word of power and the underlying tone of control does not have meaning.
So much of what you have been working for in this third dimension, on your beautiful planet Gaia, this incredible being of diversity and of such love, has had to do with shifting your own sense of power, your own sense of might, your own sense of direction, of what is right and what does not serve.
Still, I look, and I see, yes, greater cooperation growing. But, my beloved ones, I know I repeat the messages of all the Masters, our Mother and Father, your Star Brothers and Sisters, but let me say it anyway: Do not underestimate who you are. Do not underestimate your power to create and to bring forward not only Ascension and movement through this year into the Higher Realms with Gaia, but here and now to also create what you are desiring, what you are demanding on a soul level, and even on a personal level – that which comes forward.
Often, when I observe, I hear and I see, “Well, we are waiting on NESARA,” or “We are waiting on disclosure,” and so much of this depends upon those that you deem are in positions of power. That is true, and it is not true. I have asked you in many ways to follow my example, yes, of love, and, at times, of meekness. But there were also times when I would turn my back on what you would think of as the establishment, the rabbis and Pharisees, and I would go my own way and I would speak to the people. And some would listen and follow, and some would call me crazy and jeer at me.
The point is the more of you who speak of the truth of what is required for freedom, the more you translate that into personal action – no, I am not asking you to march on Washington, Beirut or Paris; that is not how it is done. Creation is done in the silence of your heart, and then living every day in that truth. We will talk tonight about illusion. The illusion is that you have the power and sometimes you think you don’t. It is yours. It is your birthright.
You talk of me as the incarnation of divinity. And you talk of me as hu-man. This is no different than each of you who carry that divine essence, so bright, so brilliant. I can see it! It is lighting up the world! So yes, you are below the radar, but being below the radar gives you the latitude to go forward with your creations, both personal and global. You are supported, not only on Earth, and by more millions than you can even imagine, but from those above, from what you think of as this Council of Love, the Company of Heaven, your Star Brothers and Sisters, the essence of One.
But let me make it more personal. I support you. I believe in you. You have chosen to live [in? and?] love, not hiding out in a cave. Your actions and your being reflect this. And yes, sometimes you falter. And that is when you practice forgiveness and let go of judgment. I have learned that lesson well.
So, during this time, not only where I wish to see peace on Earth, but when we transition, not only the year, but the reality that the human collective is occupying, the peace is made with the third as you travel forward. But you are carrying the flag of freedom. You are determined, and do not underestimate that determination and stubbornness; you have never given up. Perhaps you only recall this lifetime. But, my dear hearts, I have known you time and time and time again, as have Michael, Sanat Kumara, certainly our Universal Mother, and you have never given up. Sometimes it has cost you your life. And then you began again. I have faith in you, and I love you. Let us go forward during this miraculous unfoldment together.
S: Thank you, Lord. One of the best uses of this time we have together, I think, would be to iron out some misunderstandings of your teachings, and also to show the universality of your teachings and where they link up with other religions. So, my first question of you is, one of the teachings of yours that I think may have been misunderstood is the saying, “I am the truth, the way and the life.” Did you mean, “I, Jesus,” as has been interpreted by the Church, or did you mean something else, Lord?
J: It was much bigger than any church or “ism.” And yes, I have said, many, many things have been misunderstood or misquoted. But that is all right. When I have used the term “I am,” I was aligning with All, with Source, with Father/Mother/One. That is the alignment. And if you, Steve, or listeners, say, “I am the truth,” then you have aligned with that, and you have become that.
The personality– and let me say, I loved my life as Yeshua. It was fulfilling. There were moments, of course, that you all know of, of despair, sadness, grief. But, by and large, I loved my life. But my purpose was to bring the messages back in a pure form, to bring things back to some basics that had been forgotten in the growing illusion of mankind. And so, when I made that statement, it was in my full divinity. And it was an invitation to come and join with me, or to claim it for yourself.
Let me be clear. I, whom you revere and love, I cannot be your life; I cannot be your truth. You may join me in the understanding, but it will always have to be translated and lived and felt and incorporated into your being, and not just into your being of your human self at this given moment, but into your personality, into your ego, into the actions that you take throughout your life.
You cannot simply say – there are far too many people who say, “I follow Jesus, I follow Jesus Christ, I follow his teachings.” That is not what I wish. What I wish is for you to own it, that you are as connected as I to the Mother/Father/Source/One – however you wish to conceive in it in your own “ism.” But it is not enough to just say the words and to think that somehow, by magic, that that gives you grace, connection. It was not meant as an ego statement, and if you have taken it as that, than you have not heard my heart within it.
S: That is perfectly clear, Lord. Thank you for that. I wish people had understood that hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
I’d like to see if a linkage can be made between some of the teachings of Christianity and those of Hinduism. Is it correct to say that the Trinity, the Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, is the same as the Hindu Trinity of Brahman, Atman and Shakti?
J: More or less, yes. And let me tell you, it is because there are slight differentiations, understandings – again human understandings I am talking about, I am not talking about the sages or the [rishis?], I am talking about the human understanding. But that Trinity of energy – and I would like you to think of it as a diamond of energy that includes the Divine Mother as well – but, yes, that is a very similar reality. And what it does is it creates, it addresses the duality and illusion from which you are moving now, it addresses the essence of the human being in form, as the Atman, as the sun, and it addresses the essence of One, of Brahman, that can be known and experienced once the illusion has been overcome. But to think –
S: May –
J: Yes. It goes back because this has evolved, particularly in the Hindu tradition, over many, many, many thousands of years. It is not a religion. It is a way of understanding the Universe of cosmology, of how things work. What is the essence that we are seeking, and that we sometimes struggle with as human beings? So you are given, in each tradition, different ways of understanding what is there for you to access and to reach that state of completion, of coming-into One. Now, that does not mean that as a human being that you do not participate, because this, do not forget, the both of these, yes, are your Trinities.
When we have begun these conversations with this channel, and she had asked why so many Masters from the east as well as the west, and we have said it is a time for these beliefs and knowings – this knowledge, not just information, but knowledge, through deep meditation and sacred spiritual practice – it is time for these to be united into one, so that there is not differences that cause strife, that cause conflict.
So, yes, my short answer to you is yes, with some cultural, historic differences in understanding.
S: All right. Just as soon as I asked you I had realized I had used terms that were open to interpretation. So let me just spend a minute clarifying the individual rungs of this Trinity, if you wouldn’t mind. Is the Atman the same as the Christ Light?
J: It is absolutely the same as that Christ Light, or the divinity within.
S: All right, now, that’s – I’m sure a lot of religious scholars will be very grateful to you for confirming that. Now, the Holy Spirit, is that equivalent to what Hindus call the Divine Mother, or Shakti, or Aum, Amen, Procreatrix, Prakritri, the Universal creative vibration? Is that the essence of the Holy Spirit? Yes?
J: She is, but she is also more than that as well.
S: Okay.
J: Yes, she is the procreator.
S: Right.
J: She is the will to bring into form.
S: Yes. Okay, thank you. I’m going to leave Brahman and the Father out of it, because there are so many levels to Brahman and the Father that I think we’d get bogged down. So I’m really more interested in the Holy Spirit and the Christ equivalents with Hinduism. So thank you for that.
Is it true that the Bible was written, partly at least, in a code?
J: Well, it was, but what happened also was that so much of it was deleted, so that what many people know as the current Bible is not in any way complete. But yes, there were numeric codes, there were symbolic codes, there were ways in which keys could be found.
S: All right.
J: But it was not meant just in that way. It was also meant to be the story. You know, you have stories, whole industries of stories. It was meant to be a philosophical treatise and a story on how to live.
S: Absolutely.
J: I make a huge differentiation, dear one, between Old Testament and New Testament.
S: Thank you. I’m glad to hear that, even though I’m an adherent to the Old Testament. (1) Thank you.
J: It is not that I ask you not to adhere. Not at all. But it was in a different time and a different reality. And very often what we have referred to as Brahman or the Father was very much thought of in the substance, in form –
S: Yes.
J: – and very cruel and thundering. And that is not – that is not all truth. The human beings create also what they anticipate that the Source will be like. And it was very patriarchal, and punitive in many ways, society that [inaudible] were sorely tested. There was no denying that. But they were also greatly rewarded.
S: All right, Lord. I’m going to give you three examples of code, and I’d like you to tell me whether this understanding is accurate or not. The first one is. “The light is always burning on the altar.” Is that a reference to the Christ light?
J: Yes.
S: The altar is the heart?
J: The altar is the heart.
S: All right, thank you. Here’s the second one. Moses’ journey up Mount Sinai. Is that a metaphor for the progress of the kundalini up the human spine?
J: Yes, it was. Now, Moses was also known for taking little side trips, you know. He liked to get away by himself and do some thinking without so many people always around.
J: Much like you?
J: Yes, much like you as well, dear one. So, yes. But the analogy, the code, is the rising of what you can call kundalini or energy. It is the firing of the energy to come up. So yes, that is absolutely right, that that journey up the Sinai was his journey of raising his energy.
S: And was that written in the Bible in the fashion it was to burn an image related to enlightenment in our minds?
J: Yes. You must have noticed that there are so many images and references to burning.
S: Yes.
J: And it is to – we could use the word “etch,” but we didn’t use that word, we used more of a word such as carve. But if you carve something, it could fade over time. But if you burned it into somebody’s being, they always remembered. That is why I ask when your tri-flame (2) is bright. It is burning, it is burning on that altar. When you have inspiration, which is exactly what Moses had – inspiration, yes, messages, but also inspiration – it burns. It burns you until you cannot contain it, so you do something with it. That is how what you think of as the Father-Mother moves us.
S: So, would it be accurate, then, to say that the Bible is a formulary of enlightenment motifs?
J: It is a formulary. But I also want to say this: It is a code, it is a formula, and there are those who will say, “I don’t know about formulas, I don’t know about codes. All I want is the basics. Just let me read the basics.” That is fine. But when you read them, read them with an open heart, and the formula will emerge directly into you.
S: Wonderful. The next question I have, the next example of a coded statement – I invite you to spend as much time on this one as you would like because I think it’s so important. The parables that you gave – the parable of treasure buried in a field, the pearl of great price, the great fish among fish, the measure of meal that leavened the whole loaf – those each seem to me to speak about an enlightenment process. Is that correct? And if it is, could you expand on what you were saying – in – let’s take the treasure buried in a field. Could you expand on your meaning there, please?
J: There is a quality amongst men – and of course when I say men I mean all beings – to be seeking and looking for the treasure. And of course the treasure is the truth. The treasure is the enlightenment. The treasure is the knowledge and the understanding. It is the riches of heaven, and whatever you conceive of as the Omniverse.
Is that part clear?
S: Very clear.
J: So, because of the tendency for humans to seek, and keep seeking and keep seeking, I speak of a treasure that is buried in the field –
S: What is –
J: – right there for you to discover. And I have said to you, you do not need to dig up the whole field! You do not need to really dig at all, but we will get to that. If you walk the field – and the field is an analogy for your life, for the Earth, for the journey, but it is also an analogy for you, for your own physical, spiritual, mental, emotional being – if you seek within, if you travel within, you will find that treasure.
But if you follow your heart and you walk the field, as most do, eventually you will come to the place where one of two things will happen: you will either be so exhausted you will lie down and then realize that the treasure is within and without, and all you have need to do is to ask, to reach and receive, or your heart will make you stop at the proper place where that treasure is buried, and you will sit and you will meditate, and you will pray, and you will not wander any longer, as you will have found the treasure.
So you can wander your body, you can wander the Earth. The result is the same. The treasure is there for you. It always has been. There would make no sense otherwise. Why would you incarnate? It is this journey of seeking and finding, of rediscovering, of sharing, but it is not a journey of being lost in the wilderness.
Those who feel – and I speak to them – who feel that they are lost in the wilderness, the wilderness of either they feel of their creation, or of the creation of the environment, stop this night. Simply stop. This searching is making you desolate and desperate. So take the treasure. It is yours.
So many feel that they are looking and looking and looking, and they are not seeing the light in the field, they’re not seeing the treasure mound. And they are depressed, and they are frustrated, and they believe that they have been forgotten. That is just not so.
If you want to know how to access the treasure within, simply ask for help. And that is what I mean when I say it is within you, that help, but it is also without, for I will help you.
S: All right, Lord. Thank you. Is the treasure buried in the heart?
J: Yes.
S: And when you said the man sold all that he had, did he sell all his desires for anything else but God?
J: Yes.
S: And meditated on the – excuse me, I’m sorry?
J: God is the only thing left. When you sell everything you have, when you let go, it is not that I anticipate you to sell everything you have. It is your desires, it is your expectations, it is the old way. So yes, it is a – it is a metaphor for letting go.
S: All right. And the man who sold all other desires but for God, did he then meditate on the Christ Light, which then became the Light of the Father? Is that what it means to –
J: Now I will [inaudible] deeper within you. When you meditate on the Christ Light, and you do so, it is not so much a span of time as a depth of connection. Within that, you catalyze and also receive – think of it as a coming down, for lack of a better way to explain it – the light and love of the Father.
S: All right. Thank you. I’m going to try to squeeze in a few questions. I see we’re running a little low on time. So, let’s see how well I can do this. St. John the Beloved said, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.” Some people say that Christ was the Word and some people say that the Holy Spirit was the Word. Which is correct, Lord?
J: It is the Christ.
S: All right, okay. Thank you.
J: But that is not the conclusion?. You know, it would be very wrong to believe that that Trinity is not intact.
S: Yes. Absolutely. All right. Were you Elishu in your former life, before Christ?
J: No, I was not. It was an over-lighting.
S: Could you explain what it means to be, to say it was an over-lighting? What does that mean, Lord?
J: It was a participation. You can even think of it as an over-lighting by Sananda as well.
S: Ah, okay. That’s very helpful. Thank you very much for that. A reader has asked if the Urantia book is reliable. Is it reliable?
J: It has certainly prodded many to think, to discuss, to explore that treasure chest. And so in that way it is a wondrous book. There are a few things that I would say are a little off, but I do not wish to take away from that book. There are a few things in the Bible that are off as well, you know. So, yes, it’s a good book.
S: All right.
J: But the goodness of this book, the reliability of this book – do not take it, or anything, just on the face value. If you are wanting to read a story book just for that sake, Urantia is not your book. It is very much in code.
S: All right. What about the Aquarian Gospel, Lord, by Levi? Is that accurate?
J: That is a beautiful piece. And yes, it is very accurate.
S: So would it be correct to say that we can read Levi’s Aquarian Gospel and know about the events of your early life?
J: Oh, yes, you can.
S: Well, that’s good to know.
J: And I would be happy to share them anyway, but yes, you can.
S: Oh, I intend to have you back to talk about your early life, Lord, and your later life, too. It’s just that we can’t get it all in one hour. But I’d love for you to return. Is the Gospel According to Thomas accurate?
J: Yes, it is.
S: All right.
J: My dear friend Thomas. For so long he was struggling, then he became that man who let everything go, who sold everything. And he discovered his treasure. It is a shame that it is not more widely known, and more widely read.
S: I’m sure it will be in the future.
J: The elimination of so many books and information has limited the understanding, no, not just of me, for I am almost incidental, but the understandings, the messages, the bringing-forth of the way to go forward.
S: All right. Sri Ramakrishna was born of a virgin birth, as far as I’m aware, and I believe that Zoroaster or Zarathustra was as well. Is it accurate to say that you, yourself, were born of a virgin birth or an immaculate conception in the same way that Sri Ramakrishna was?
J: Yes, that is correct.
S: Would you mind spending just a few minutes with our listeners telling them how such a thing can be? I’ll share on the blog site about Sri Ramakrishna’s virgin birth, (3) but how can that be, given that we believe that the male and the female cells must merge?
J: Because there is – what you think of as your human reproductive ways are very useful, but it is not the only way that conception takes place. We have talked, earlier, a little bit about inspiration, and about how that can burn and explode. Well, joy can explode within the womb, within the female, if she is of a nature that is in complete alignment, as this one was. She was prepared diligently, throughout her entire life.
So it was by the spark of the, yes, the Holy Spirit, but also of the Father. It was the joy outpouring that there would be an embodiment of light. That embodiment of light, we do not say it could not come from Joseph, but it did not come from Joseph. He did not have the wherewithal for that level of energy, of what you can think of as lightning, to enter in and to fertilize.
It is not a difficult thing. It is only the humans – the other beings understand it perfectly – the humans have always been reticent to understand that one can be so filled with light that it can create new life.
S: All right, Lord. That’s very helpful. We have a few minutes remaining, and I wonder if you could spend some time addressing yourself to world Islam. Muslims have been blamed for acts of terrorism, and have gotten a – they’ve been criticized pretty heavily, particularly in America. (4) What are your thoughts on that, please?
J: There is one Source, one Trinity, one diamond, and many paths. And each are sacred and holy, because whether you commit yourself to the path of Islam, or to the path of Christianity, you are committing yourself to the One Source of All. Are there misunderstandings in the interpretations? On all sides, at times, yes. But let us suggest this: The criticism that is anchored – and we mean anchored, not aimed – at those of Islam are unjust. They are judgmental, they are unfair, they are not of peace, they are not of love. It is a darkness that pervades much of the light. And what it does is it formulates hatred, which eliminates the opportunity for the very thing Michael and I work for, which is peace on earth.
Their religion is sacred. Yes, sometimes the politics are skewed. And sometimes the politics in the West are very skewed. It is like throwing stones. Clean up your own house first.
S: Thank you, Lord.
J: I do not say this casually. I say this because unless you can love your brother, your sister – and the more different they are the more important it becomes. It is very easy to love someone who is just a mirror image of thee, even with their personality, because it is enough of the ego that becomes involved, and then it is often called love. But it is important to truly honor and love all your neighbors.
And this has become more important, not less, as the complexities of your world have evolved. This lesson has been learned throughout the galaxies at a terrible price. But it has been learned. Now it is time, during this phase, to make peace with your brethren, because in that you make peace with the third. If you say to me, “Lord, I can never love someone of Islam, someone who is Hindu, someone who is Jain,” this will not do. It is all; it is not highly selective. It does not mean that you agree with everything they do, they say. But there is an honoring of their divinity, and their devotion.
S: Thank you, lord. I think you’ve given our listeners a tremendous amount to think on, and I’m very grateful. May we have you back in January?
J: I would be very happy to do so.
S: Thank you, Lord.
J: Farewell.
Footnotes
(1) I personally find Jesus’s teachings in the New Testament to be far more compelling and inspiring than almost all of those in the Old Testament, with perhaps the exception of Proverbs and Isaiah. But I say that as a matter of taste and not as any doctrinal matter.
(2) The “tri flame” refers to the flame of pink, with gold and blue flames on either side, which braids together and forms the violet flame associated with St. Germaine. The tri-flame meditation, which Jesus gave in his annual Christmas message through Linda Dillon and which so many other masters have also urged us to use, is a very powerful one, I have found, and is one we’re encouraged to visualize repeatedly.
(3) “[One] day when she was was standing with Dhani before the Shiva temple adjacent to her house, she saw a flood of celestial light issue from the image of Lord Shiva and dart towards her. She was about to speak of the phenomenon to her friend, when the light entered her body and completely overpowered her, rendering her unconscious. Dhani nursed her back to consciousness and, gearing her whole story,m was at first puzzled and then took it as a nervous disease, But Chandra felt as if she were with child.” (Life of Sri Ramakrishna. Calcutta: Advaita Ashram, 1977, 9.)
I might add that Chandra’s husband, Khudiram, was away in Gaya at the time so he could not possibly have participated in Sri Ramakrishna’s inception. There he also had a vision of Sri Vishnu, advising him that a child would be born to him: “That night he had a strange dream. He felt himself transported again to the temple of Gadhadar where in the solemn silence of the sacred precintcs, he found his forefathers feasting with gladdened hearts on the oblations.
“Suddenly a divine effulgence filled the room and the spirits of the departed fell reverently on their knees before a luminous Person seated on a throne. The effulgent one beckoned to Khudiram, who came forward and, with a heart full of devotion, prostrated himself. Addressing Khurdiram in a tone of great sweetness, He said: ‘I am well pleased at your sincere devotion. I am born again and again to chastise the wicked and protect the virtuous. This time I shall be born in your cottage and accept you as My father.’ Khudiram was struck dumb with awe.” (Ibid., 8.)
Zoroaster: “The Glory in God’s Presence [i.e., Shakti, the Divine Mother or Holy Spirit] fled on towards the wife of Frahimrvanaosoish, when she brought forth that girl, Dughdoa, who became Zarathusthra’s mother. It came down from the Endless Light like Fire (and) mingled with the fire in front of her; from the fire it mingled with the (future) mother of Zarathushtra. Three nights was it visible to all passers-by as a kind of fire in the direction of the house. … Here occurred through milk and the Haoma, the blending of the Glory, the Fravashi, and the personality of Zarathushtra in a mother’s womb.” (The Gospel of Zarathushtra. Madras: Theosophical Society, 1978, 69-70.)
(4) Muslims have been unjustly blamed for 9/11, which was in fact an act of the shadow government or cabal, designed to justify a war in Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran, and precipitate a Third World War to bring down the human population and secure absolute control for the Illuminati. Muslims had almost nothing to do with it. Those that did, such as Pakistani ISI officers, were in the pay of the cabal.
